Curse

Navaros · Aug 15, 2007, 03:46 AM // 03:46

In my view there is no quandary.

Lots of people made threads on this site about "The Lockpick Revolution" which they wish had occurred, but never actually occurred.

Ectos are the understood currency supplement. In my view that isn't going to change. Because every single time threads about replacing Ectos are made on forums, nothing ever changes in-game in regards to Ectos being replaced. History has proven time and time again that "Change the currency from Ectos" threads like this are a lost cause.

Entreri · Aug 15, 2007, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Ectos are the understood currency supplement. In my view that isn't going to change. Because every single time threads about replacing Ectos are made on forums, nothing ever changes in-game in regards to Ectos being replaced. History has proven time and time again that "Change the currency from Ectos" threads like this are a lost cause.

Perhaps true, people like ectos. But I think the point in the OP was that changes to favor are likely to cause a decrease in the price of ectos in the near term. So some people may want to avoid having reason to post in the next "ZOMG TEH ECTO PRICE SI CRASHING! I AM TEH GHOSTBUSTAR!!111" thread we've also had a few times.

kilkelo · Aug 15, 2007, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Why cant we just add a new currency and increase the gold cap? Something like a Gemstone worth 1,000k and raise the cap to 100mil instead of 1mil.

VitisVinifera · Aug 15, 2007, 05:13 AM // 05:13

There doesn't seem to be a very good answer with how to allocate your money when you've hit the plat cap. Some are better than others, but nothing with that is fast and fairly liquidatable (aka a super ecto that is always worth the same and can be bought and sold at a rare mat trader for that amount).

I think this is Anet's subtle nudge to get us to use money sinks. Buying alcs and cremes then burning through them (alc/sugar title), or keys that on average do not net in returns the price you paid (wisdom/chest runner title).

In one aspect, it might be a good thing that people can't amass gigantic hordes of completely liquidatable wealth -- it would become the haves vs the have nots.

Personally I ran up against this wall just as Factions was being introduced (got rich farming SF greens when they fetched very impressive prices). Ever since then, it's been buying fissure suits for the hell of it, minis (not the asian ones), and alcs/keys. Unfortunately I have 2 r9 Colossal Scims I want to sell but it would take too long to buy 160k worth of alcs, sugars, and keys (lockpicks at 1.25k). So,.......yeah it's not perfect. At all.

You can't see me · Aug 15, 2007, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Do you realize what you're saying in your post? We should eliminate the price of anything over 100k is what one of your paragraphs suggests. Do you realize how horrid that would be?

There would be nothing in the game to aim for. Everything would be ascessable to anyone. There would be nothing to earn money for except to buy the same thing everyone else has. "Oh, I just bought a naga mini." "Ohh, me too." That's not something I want to see in the local chat of Kamadan D3.

Cater to the lazy people. People who want everything in this game for as little work as possible. That's right, call me an elitist. But what you're saying there is that lazy people should be catered to.

The casual players who play one to three hours a day every other day on an on off basis (And there's nothing wrong with that) should NOT have easy acess to Tormented weapons, rare minipets, or any high end items. There's a simple reason for this. THEY DIDN'T DO THE WORK.

You see a guy with a zodiac weapon, he worked for that weapon, and it's known as high end. That makes it impressive.

You see a guy with a tormented sheild and an ele sword, you KNOW he works his butt off for those items, and they are widely known as impressive items for the reason that they take so long to save up for and are hard to obtain.

THERE'S A REASON THINGS HARE HARD TO GET.

I'm sorry, but you should NOT be able to acess FoW armor, Tormented items, and Crystilline swords just because you don't want to work for them, or because you don't play enough. That's like saying you should get paid part time as much as you would be if you were working full time and some overtime to boot. The world doesn't work that way, buddy.

~Edit~

I realize that this is not the bulk message you send in your thread, but this to the people who think this way, and yourself if you think that items over 100k should not cost that much.

The sickening thing about that is that they only say 100k because that's the cap. If it was 1M, they would say 1M. It's not the fact that it's cheap, they just think that it will be easier and cheaper because you won't have to pay for extra currency, and see that as unescasarry, but let me tell you right now that this is NOT the case.

Fine, call me an elitist. I call you a supporter of the lazy masses if you think that way.

To answer the item questioning as to currency beyond gold, this is my opinion. Diamonds are a bad idea to invest in, because their use probably will turn out to be non dominent in the armor crafting. The price will drop, and you'll lose money. Even if diamonds turn out to be the real deal, and live up to everyone's high expectations, that's not a risk I'm willing to invest my money in, and I wouldn't advise it to anyone else.

When it comes to Ectos and their depreciating value, welcome to the economy. That's nothing new. I doubt the majority of players will switch with the release of GW:EN because Ectos will still be Ectos, and FoW armor will still be FoW armor. I seriously doubt there will be a new set of FoW armor in GW:EN that will put Ecto on the same plate as diamonds.

Diamonds aren't a demanded material, they're a superstition to people who think that they will have use in GW:EN. They won't have the same situation as Ectos or Shards.

But any item you use as currency will depreciate. If Diamons were the currency instead of Ecto, then they would depreciate the same way Ectos do, and be in the same situation as they are now.

As for the supplemental currency as a whole, increasing the cash cap would actually be a great idea I think. It would slow down the depreciation of Ectos and shards or diamonds if they become that very much because of the remainder of the demand, depending on the increase cap amount, and the fact that they are not widely marketed anymore.

However, if the cap is increased too much, the supplemental currency price will hit rock bottem and screw over many holders. This is why I hope they will leave it alone.

All in all, I disagree with just about 100% of this thread, if you just skimmed over my post, that's the idea. I reccomend you go back and read it if you did though.

Hyper.nl · Aug 15, 2007, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Lockpicks would be useful because they are more stable than rare crafting materials. And yes, those ultra-rare minipets are insane. Imo any in-game stuff should be obtainable by any player who invests a lot of time/effort to get one.

Entreri · Aug 15, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

All in all, I disagree with just about 100% of this thread, if you just skimmed over my post, that's the idea. I reccomend you go back and read it if you did though.

I did skim because your post doesn't reference who you're talking to and jumps around. You seem to be for people buying high priced items but that really isn't on topic with the OP.

People in this post talk about using rubies, diamonds, sticking with ectos, lockpicks and keeping cash in different accounts. You disagree with ALL of them?

Nobody has talked about putting all their gold into mini pigs. Can I put you in the mini pig camp?

NoXiFy · Aug 15, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

My favorite currency are Gems, Titans mostly. Ecto are a disgrace now... I can 2 man clear underworld in hard mode and get 2-3 ecto tops (Thats less than 15k, about 14.5k or so) Plus, it's 1k to get into UW... so profit gained in the fourty-five minutes it takes: roughly 13.5k'ish. Now, GoA on the other hand... with Titans going for 15k and you can easily get 1 in a 8 minute 3 room clear.Lets say in 8 runs (40minutes) you get 2 titans, thats already 30k.

You can't see me · Aug 15, 2007, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entreri

I did skim because your post doesn't reference who you're talking to and jumps around. You seem to be for people buying high priced items but that really isn't on topic with the OP.

People in this post talk about using rubies, diamonds, sticking with ectos, lockpicks and keeping cash in different accounts. You disagree with ALL of them?

Nobody has talked about putting all their gold into mini pigs. Can I put you in the mini pig camp?

First off, I told you skimming was a bad idea, because if you hadn't done that, you'd know two things.

1. That the top part of my reply is aimed at the small message that he sent by his idea on the mini pets, and the replies on page two that express the opinion I adress.

2. The Bottom part of my post is the real reply to the original, and that's where I explain why I disagree with his ideas, these being that diamonds and or gems take over as a sumpreme currency, the arguments that ectos are inferior to diamonds, that lockpicks should be used as set values, and that perhaps there should be a raised cash cap, and that alternate accounts should be able to transfer cash. And yes, I disagree with all of these.

Don't skim over things. Feed your eyes with words so they don't get fed cold replies for thier mistake. -.-

TriaD · Aug 15, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

It would be interesting to see the developer’s comments on this subject.
I have about a whole short essays worth of discussion I want to write about this subject, but I will spare you all with that and share some short ideas.

There are two methods to changing the market, introduce super ectos with locked in price or increase the gold storage and trade limit. Both would cause the current ecto market to crash. Possible solution: lock in the price of ecto for a month or so to allow for liquidation of current stock piles.

The current in game economy needs some sort of loss to be stable, be it gold sinks or the steady depreciating value of supplemental currencies such as ecto.

Side effects of super ecto or increased gold limit only serves to keep more money in the system making expensive items i.e.: armor not as rare or prestigious.

Personally I would like to see a more stable currency with the ability to trade over 100k without using something like ectos. But there would need to be a lot more gold sinks introduced to the game. I would also like to see the developers sit down with an economist and see what they can do to change the current system. So that’s my 2 cents.

Keithark · Aug 15, 2007, 01:14 PM // 13:14

It is the "rich" people wanting a way to trade over 100k not the dev's. The devs do not want anything to cost over 100k hence the cap. So their reply to this thread would likely be "good our plan is starting to work"

Jetdoc · Aug 15, 2007, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

The devs do not want anything to cost over 100k hence the cap.

If that is the case, then why did they introduce items that have a very, very, very limited availability?

That's like Major League Baseball saying..."we didn't intend for Barry Bonds' 756th home run ball to be worth so much money..."

korcan · Aug 15, 2007, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

~Edit~

I realize that this is not the bulk message you send in your thread, but this to the people who think this way, and yourself if you think that items over 100k should not cost that much.

nowhere in my post do i refer to any items other then the limited minis.

if you read my post at all, youd know that all i was suggesting was to add some more of the limited minis to the game. not in massive quantites but just enough to have some more in circulation and to regulate prices.

your rant about me suggesting that everything should be under 100k is ludicrous. where do i even suggest that in my post?

You can't see me · Aug 15, 2007, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by korcan

nowhere in my post do i refer to any items other then the limited minis.

if you read my post at all, youd know that all i was suggesting was to add some more of the limited minis to the game. not in massive quantites but just enough to have some more in circulation and to regulate prices.

your rant about me suggesting that everything should be under 100k is ludicrous. where do i even suggest that in my post?

Re-releasing superior end items such as aisan minis are part of the plan that most people who think in the opinion I adress have for limiting items.

I also adress the page two posters in this because they make a direct suggestion about items being 100k and down, and nothing over. I was not aiming the top part of my post at the OP, only the miniature part of it, and the other posted opinions, because the whole 100k idea is one I feel needs to be shot down at first appearence before it can prosper.

Now, if you skimmed over that, it basically explained why that indeed was NOT aimed directly at you, as you think it was.

THIS is directed at the OP and the currency issues. I'll put it in a bulleted list so it's easy for you to understand.

-Diamonds as currency? I prefer not to risk it. There is no proof that diamonds will even be used in GWE:EN, much less be put on the same plate as Ectoplasm, that are used in FoW armor. There is no information suggesting that GW:EN will release an armor that will be comparable to FoW and use diamonds instead of Ecto.

-Diamonds are a suspicion, and this is the only reason people are using them. Not because they are a demanded material, like Ectoplasm or shards. They are also not hard to farm or obtain without buying, versus Ectplasm only dropping in elite areas.

-Diamonds, are also a rare crafting material, and will depreciate in value just as Ectoplasm or any other rare material as the game goes on even if diamonds live up the high expectations of the players that think they will have dominent use in GW:EN

-As for Rubies and sapphires, their price flucuates and depreciates greatly, and would not be suitable currency for the same reason as diamonds in the sense that they are a rare crafting material as well, they are obtained in non-elite areas, and that they both will depreciate the same way.

-As for tormented gem currency, I'm not sure on this one. It may be one idea, but acess to farming these is limited which may inhibit thier use as regular currency. They also have a huge price range, unlike ecto which has just been slowy depreciating, but staying roughly the same over periods of time.

-As for lockpicks, this is impossible. While the value is set, 7 stacks would not be enough to pay for the most expensive item in the game, or some under that even, making them an impractical solution, and also because the market would flood with them, golds would go far down in value because of overuse of locked chests in hard mode, and players who owned towns could get them relativly cheaper. Also for the fact that they are not really farmable, just a lucky drop.

-As for a raise in the cash cap, I don't think it's needed, as we have no trouble paying for what we buy already. If we raise it too much, any supplemental currecny will hit rock bottem and rob many holders of amounts that are far too great to lose.

-As for transfering cash inbetween accounts, that's illegal and will remain illegal. You're only supposed to have one account to begin with. Others you purchase the keys to are subject to banning.

I hope that was simple enough for you, and short enough that you won't skim over it and come up with another uninformed response.

The Herbalizer · Aug 15, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

Re-releasing superior end items such as aisan minis are part of the plan that most people who think in the opinion I adress have for limiting items.

I also adress the page two posters in this because they make a direct suggestion about items being 100k and down, and nothing over. I was not aiming the top part of my post at the OP, only the miniature part of it, and the other posted opinions, because the whole 100k idea is one I feel needs to be shot down at first appearence before it can prosper.

Now, if you skimmed over that, it basically explained why that indeed was NOT aimed directly at you, as you think it was.

THIS is directed at the OP and the currency issues. I'll put it in a bulleted listed so it's easy for you to understand.

-Diamons as currency? I prefer not to risk it. There is no proof that diamonds will even be used in GWE:EN, much less be put on the same plate as Ectoplasm, which are used in FoW armor. There is no information suggesting that GW:EN will release an armor that will be comparable to FoW and use diamonds instead of Ecto.

-Diamonds are a suspicion, and this is the only reason people are using them. Not because they are a demanded material, like Ectoplasm or shards. They are also not hard to farm or obtain without buying, versus Ectplasm only dropping in elite areas.

-Diamonds, are also a rare crafting material, and will depreciate in value just as Ectoplasm or any other rare material as the game goes on even if diamonds live up the high expectations of the players that think they will have dominent use in GW:EN

-As for Rubies and sapphires, their price flucuates and depreciates greatly, and would not be suitable currency for the same reason as diamonds in the sense that they are a rare crafting material as well, they are obtained in no-elite areas, and that they both will depreciate the same way.

-As for tormented gem currency, I'm not sure on this one. It may be one idea, but acess to farming these is limited which may inhibit thier use as regular currency. They also have a huge price range, unlike ecto which has just been slowy depreciating, but staying roughly the same over periods of time.

-As for lockpicks, this is impossible. While the value is set, 7 stacks would not be enough to pay for the most expensive item in the game, or some under that even, making them an impractical solution, and also because the market would flood with them, golds would go far down in value because of overuse of locked chests in hard mode, and players who owned towns could get them relativly cheaper. Also for the fact that they are not really farmable, just a lucky drop.

-As for a raise in the cash cap, I don't think it's needed, as we have no trouble paying for what we buy already. If we raise it too much, any supplemental currecny will hit rock bottem and rob many holders of amounts that are far too great to lose.

-As for transfering cash inbetween accounts, that's illegal and will remain illegal. You're only supposed to have one account to begin with. Others you purchase the keys to are subject to banning.

I hope that was simple enough for you, and short enough that you won't skim over it and come up with another uninformed response.

Is that definately in the eula?

Only reason I ask is because I know hundreds of people with multiple accounts. One person I knew had something silly like 10. Never heard of a ban for owning multiple accounts or transfering stuff.

You can't see me · Aug 15, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Yes, it's true. Arenanet has made it clear that you are not allowed to purchase other keys in game, which is where most come from.

And yes, they are subject to ban. Most people, however, play two accounts off two IPs making them impossible to automatically trace. Arenanet has to reveiw and evalute activities done by the two accounts that they suspect are played by one account, and then make a move.

But yes, my apologies for not clarifying that, as it is not widely known.

zwei2stein · Aug 15, 2007, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

Yes, it's true. Arenanet has made it clear that you are not allowed to purchase other keys in game, which is where most come from.

And yes, they are subject to ban. Most people, however, play two accounts off two IPs making them impossible to automatically trace. Arenanet has to reveiw and evalute activities done by the two accounts that they suspect are played by one account, and then make a move.

But yes, my apologies for not clarifying that, as it is not widely known.

This is bull----, to my knowledge anet never, ever mentioned that they dont like idea of people buying and using multiple accounts.

They would have to be quite insane to take action againt people whose are giving them x-times more money than others with single acc.

There was never "i was banned for having two accounts" thread either.

Every "serious" gw player propably has two accounts (cough, Prohecies Gaile: if you want more slots, buy more accounts.), and never got into problems. even my friend mulling his one million of gold back and forth all the time had no problems.

Also, pretty much everyone runs their two accounts on one computer simultaneously. People are hardly paranoid enough to run accs from different ips, beucause anet is NOT out there to get them.

seriously.

TriaD · Aug 15, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

It is the "rich" people wanting a way to trade over 100k not the dev's. The devs do not want anything to cost over 100k hence the cap. So their reply to this thread would likely be "good our plan is starting to work"

The 100k trading system is antiquated and it really doesn’t matter what the devs intended. They do not control the market unless they are actively price fixing items like ecto. Also, such items like the armbrace take too much time to farm to be equal to the amount of farming it takes to actually make 100k in items, which can be sold at the various merchant types.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

-As for a raise in the cash cap, I don't think it's needed, as we have no trouble paying for what we buy already. If we raise it too much, any supplemental currecny will hit rock bottem and rob many holders of amounts that are far too great to lose.

I do believe it would be possible to switch over to a market with a higher gold cap without too much gold lost. It would require ecto’s pricing to be locked in at the rare materials merchant for a months time at 5k each and a huge announcement by Anet saying to get rid of your piles of ecto. At the end of the month anyone with over 120 ecto in their storage would have the rest of their piles liquidated and converted to gold.

It’s possible for Anet to do this, but would require a lot of work on their hand. And I’m not entirely sure they care enough to make a change like this.

The Herbalizer · Aug 15, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Er wtf devs didnt intend 100k + trades.

They beta tested the game and knew full well that 100k is easily obtainable.

Adding ultra rare items would obviously mean they would exceed 100k as it is easily obtainable.

Playing through prophecies would net you a large chunk of gold so it was obvious 100k + trades would occur.

Making r8 15>50 crystalline swords drop like never would obviously mean they would be 100k +

To suggest anet did not anticipate this or intend it is beyong rediculous.

They could have altered the drop rates very early on if this was the case as just after release items were selling for way more than 100k

korcan · Aug 15, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

Now, if you skimmed over that, it basically explained why that indeed was NOT aimed directly at you, as you think it was.

not directed at me?

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

Do you realize what you're saying in your post? We should eliminate the price of anything over 100k is what one of your paragraphs suggests. Do you realize how horrid that would be?

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

~Edit~

I realize that this is not the bulk message you send in your thread, but this to the people who think this way, and yourself if you think that items over 100k should not cost that much.

if by starting off a post with "Do you realize what you're saying in your post" is not directed at me, you must be speaking a language other then english.

then you edit your post halfway down and presume to know what im thinking. you obviously have no clue what im thinking even though i clearly state what im thinking in my op.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

THIS is directed at the OP and the currency issues. I'll put it in a bulleted list so it's easy for you to understand.

I hope that was simple enough for you, and short enough that you won't skim over it and come up with another uninformed response.

as for currency issues. im merely speculating as everyone else.

succinct non repetitive posts are what i prefer but i can, like the rest of us, bare through the longwinded presumptuous ones like yours.